Cave In (Modern Fix, Issue 50)

by Rei Nishimoto

photo by Erin Caruso

It isn’t very often when a band like Cave In enters the world and changes the perception of average music fans. Ever since their humble beginnings back in Boston in 1995, they were creating music based on their love of music, whether it was Snapcase, Threadbare or Sunny Day Real Estate. Guitarist Stephen Brodsky named the band after a Codeine song off of their “Frigid Stars” LP, and began shaping the early version of the band around the heaviest sounds they could create while also stretching the lengths of the songs at the same time. These songs were found on a variety of seven inch singles done for a variety of independent labels before landing on Los Angeles based HydraHead Records.

A few line up changes occurred along the way creating what is now heard on their 1997 “Beyond Hypothermia” CD, which was called their ‘debut’ but was actually re-worked versions of previously recorded songs from past seven inches. But they later brought in current bassist Caleb Scofield to secure the position. Having trouble finding a vocalist that fit the band’s needs, Brodsky handled the vocals and recorded their first ‘real’ full length, 1998’s “Until Your Heart Stops”. Longtime Cave In fans grew to love the sheer raw aggression behind this release.

It wasn’t until 2000’s “Jupiter” (a running theme based on Brodsky’s interest in the solar system) that truly saw a climaxing in the band’s musical abilities. Stepping away from the sheer aggression and exploring more progressive melodies, it was a Cave In long time fans weren’t expecting.

The success behind Jupiter found them in a huge bidding war by several major labels for exclusive signing rights. RCA/BMG won bidding war and released “Antenna” in 2003. For the first time in Cave In’s history, they received a large recording budget to record in Los Angeles. They spent two months in the studio while soaking in new techniques such as re-listening to the same songs repeatedly and spending more time on arrangements.They became students of the major label game. “Antenna” became the band’s most melodic and progressive sounding release to date, although long time fans were somewhat lost by their new direction. Being a band that never relied on radio singles in the past, they quickly learned that the big label world was not for Cave In and quickly parted ways with RCA.

The band spent the past few years doing extensive soul searching to lead into the recording of “Pitch Perfect Black”. After rediscovering what made Cave In important to each member, they began writing this new release. This is Cave In’s first release in three years and raises the bar on creativity. It’s a representative work in overcoming their recent troubles. It takes the best parts of each era of Cave In’s history and creating an ambitious record that needs to be heard. Long time fans will be re-acquainted with the classic heaviness while recent fans will also be familiarized with their spaced out guitar tones and dreamy indie rock melodies.

Guitarist / singer Stephen Brodsky and bassist Caleb Scofield spoke about the making of the new album, the challenge of creating music, the major label experience and the future of Cave In.

You went through quite a struggle to release Perfect Pitch Black.

Caleb Scofield: The majority of the material was intended for our next release on RCA. After a year and a half of disagreements and things not working out the way we’d hope it would, we parted ways with RCA. We weren’t sure what was going to happen to these songs. We had made demos for six or seven of them and knew we were happy with them, but we knew we had a ways to go and needed a home if they were to be properly released. We came full circle and came to talking to our friends at Hydrahead again. They were interested in releasing the stuff. It’s kind of a surprise to us that the record is out. The songs have seen the light of day. They’ve come as far as they have from the initial demos to where they are now. It ended up making a pretty cool record.

This new CD took a lot of elements from the past and present without sounding repetitive. Is this something that just happens with unspoken chemistry?

Stephen Brodsky: We kind of wanted it to happen that way. I really felt the couple releases prior to this one (“Jupiter” and “Antenna”) weren’t pushing us as players and songwriters as much as I wanted to. Collectively, we came on to the same page in terms of that idea of writing songs. Whenever we want to shed a layer of skin musically, we don’t go about it nonchalantly. There’s a real driving force in our band to be the best as we can with what we’re trying to do. We’ll just do it. It’s never felt as though there was a weak link in that attitude when it came to actually writing music.

Caleb: It allows everyone in the band to showcase their personality and what it is they’re good at. This record was really collaborative as far as the writing process went. Everyone was open to each other’s ideas. It’s always healthy. You feel more connected to it. It’s fun. When we did that tour with Converge, we knew that we would have to play some older material. Otherwise, we would be getting booed every night. So we started doing that, and after that tour, it was fun playing those metal songs. Next thing we knew, we’re writing heavier riffs again. My vocals are becoming more a presence. It’s important for us to always do what we’re good at, instead of running away from certain things because you don’t want to end up being pigeonholed as this type of band.

“Antenna” was on a major label. What did you learn from that experience?

Stephen: I think we learned more about ourselves as people more than anything. When it came to shedding layers of skin like I said earlier, in terms of musicality, it’s probably more important for us as musicians than anything. It’s more important to us than playing stupid little games to sell more records, which is what you have to do when you’re on a major label. You’re encouraged to be more of that nature. That was the biggest lesson. That had an effect on the way we wrote these songs, how went about writing them and the ‘carefreeness’ by which we chose to maintain the process.

Were you surprised major labels took that much interest in Cave In, considering you have such a hardcore following and not meant for the mainstream?

Caleb: That whole time period was bizarre for us. We never had any aspirations of being a band on a major label or even considering it an option. Then with the release of “Jupiter”, we started getting this attention from people from a totally different world than where we came from. At the time, exploring different avenues seemed good to us. It did take us about a year to decide whether or not it was something we wanted to do. But all of us were enthralled with the idea of being able to do the band full time and not having to commit ourselves to anything else. We decided to go for it. It still baffles me to this day, especially in retrospect now seeing how things turned out. We ended up living up to every cliché that you have about any band going to a major and having things just fall apart. I still wonder what the interest is from that world with a band like us. I think those people are so far removed from what it is that we do when they see a band that can travel across the country and the world on their own and have people come see them and buy their records. Imagine what we could do with the money and power they have. But in reality, that’s not how it works.

I never could put concepts like radio songs and Cave In in the same sentence. They don’t go together.

Caleb: It was pretty weird. Even stuff off of “Jupiter”, like the song ‘Braincandles’, is pretty straightforward. It’s kind of a pop format, verse, chorus, verse. I hope that even when we write songs that are more ‘accessible’ or whatever you want to call it, there’s still something more interesting to them. There’s still that tinge of Cave In and you can tell it’s a Cave In song. On “Antenna”, we got into this groove of re-working everything so hard. Everyday we’d have a finished version of a song but we were reworking it. Before you know it, we’d have a record full of these tiny, short songs. It’s not a very good representation of us in that style of writing. We can’t fully express ourselves. It’s funny because major labels put so much attention on bands always having songs for the radio. For a band like us, we never relied on that format to get out to people. Ever. We never even considered having a song on the radio. We tour, release records and if people catch onto it, they catch onto it. We did have a couple of songs on the radio from “Antenna” and it didn’t do anything. It wasn’t like as soon as our song went to radio, we saw a massive difference in our turnouts or record sales.

“Antenna” took a musical departure from past releases where melodies played a bigger part than before. Any regrets?

Stephen: Maybe the aggression by which we went about shedding the idea of Cave In strictly being a hardcore band was somewhat necessary. The scene that we came from didn’t really champion that sort of thing as much as it maybe should have when you consider what defines punk rock or what the idea of punk rock really is. We overcompensated for that by really just sticking it in people’s faces that we weren’t going to be this kind of band with this handle on it that people could swing it by and take a grip on. We were going to be more of our own thing and we would define what we were. It wasn’t going to be anyone else’s words or opinions. I don’t regret that. As much as our fans are important to the continuation of this band, there is no way I could pick up the guitar and play something I’m not going to be feeling 100%, because I don’t want anybody else to see that. Nobody else should have to hear that.

Do you think you may have spooked some of the older fans with direction of “Antenna”?

Caleb: Absolutely (laughs). That was something that we knew would happen. But you can’t live your whole career worried about what your fans are going to think. You have to do what feels right for you at the time, and hope it is the right thing. This record is sort of a return to form for us. We’re realizing what type of band we really are, what we are good at and what type of songs we’re most comfortable writing and playing. I’m sure a lot of people look at our band and they’re like “These guys are too all over the map. One year they’re a heavy metal record and next year it’s an attempt at some pop-rock record.” It’s understandable. Hopefully we ourselves are sort of realizing what we need to stick with and what we’re good at.

I guess not everyone can be AC/DC.

Caleb: Yeah! (laughs). It’s tough putting out the same record over and over and having people dig it. Especially being in the band, you are always wanting to do something different. Challenge yourself a little bit and change it up just enough to keep you wanting to write another record. Go out and tour. Keep things interesting for yourself. We definitely bounce all over the map musically, but it’s something that keeps it fun for us.

Was “Perfect Pitch Black” the record that was originally supposed to be the major label release? How much of this was written at that time?

Stephen: All of it.

What was it about Hydrahead Records that appealed to Cave In to release this CD?

Stephen: Those guys were really supportive of us through the whole process of making this record. They said themselves, “If RCA won’t put this out, we’ll do it.” Right there, it just rang a bell. They were on the same page as us in a lot of ways. Neither party necessarily wanted to go for the throat and stuff this thing into people’s ears like most major label records are worked. We didn’t feel comfortable about that. We enjoy people gravitating more to something we do as opposed to having a noose thrown around their necks and yanked towards us. And we didn’t approach any other labels. We weren’t interested in that. I think with anything, the words ‘record label’ were sort of like redrum written in blood on a mirror.

Wasn’t there a point where Cave In was close to not being a band any more?

Stephen: Yes. There were plenty of points where we didn’t know why we were in a band or with each other. We were questioning that even prior to discontinuing the promotion madness for “Antenna”.

Caleb: We did a tour about a year ago with Converge and after that, we hadn’t been touring much at all. We had finally gotten off of RCA and just burnt out. We toured so hard for years. We really got put through the ringer with the label and management and all down the line. I think we all reached this point where we were like ‘Let’s just step away from this for a while. If it does come back together at some point, great. If not, so be it. I moved out here (Los Angeles), and our drummer J.R. moved away to Germany. He was nursing a broken wrist anyways so we knew it would be a while until he would be able to play. For a while, it did look like nothing was going to happen. These songs on “Perfect Pitch Black” were shelved away. Everybody was busy doing their own thing. But when you’re so close to something for such a long time and then you step away form it, it’s only a matter of time until you’re like ‘Oh man! I miss this.’ The fact of the matter is that we can still put out records, so why not take advantage of this?

Is that when you started doing your solo record?

Stephen: I’ve done music on my own for as long as I can remember. Ever since I got my first four-track machine when I was in high school. I’ve put out a couple records under my own name on a small label a few years ago. We all had time away from each other to explore playing with different people and develop our own skill in the process. That was refreshing. When you play with the same dudes for four years straight, in one sense, it’s really like a nice sweater that you’ve always had that fits every time you put it on. But in terms of our inspiration for playing our instruments, we had run out of fuel by the time Cave In had decided to take a rest. At this point, it’s more exciting that I can ever remember. You really develop your arsenal as a musician, when you learn a bit of the language and the traits of other players out there in the world. Everyone has their own way of speaking through their fingers or their mouth or whatever to make sound. At this point, when we get together and write some more music, I think it’s going to be that much more exciting.

How do you differentiate between what works with Cave In and what will become your solo material?

Stephen: At this point, if I play something for those guys that might work for the band and they’re excited about it, then they’re pretty verbal about it. So it depends on the excitement level of it. Now all of the other garbage, I do on my own (laughs). The solo stuff is like the garbage disposal of Cave In!

What other projects are the rest of the guys in? Do you have other projects you’re involved in?

Stephen: In the past couple of years, there’s been other stuff that I’ve gone back and forth on, but ultimately it’s the two worlds. Caleb (Scofield, bass) does Old Man Gloom once in a blue moon. He was also playing in the Icarus Line for a little while, but I don’t know if they’re even a band any more. Adam (McGrath, guitar) is playing in a band called Clouds, which is mainly his creation. By his description, it’s sort of a punk rock jam band. Ben also plays in Converge. Caleb: I only really do Old Man Gloom. We have a hard time getting together to do anything because all of the members are so busy with their other bands. We had a record come out last year. We didn’t get a chance to tour on it at all. We played a few shows. We were all happy with the record and it deserves a little more attention that what it got from us. There is only so much we could all do. That’s kind of a thing that will always be there and there will always be time for it, here and there. Adam has another band in Boston going. They’re playing shows. Steve’s working on something. He’s got his own record that he’s constantly working on. He’s playing in this band Octave Museum. He’s always going. He’s got so much musical energy.

There’s a lot of recent metal bands coming out of the New England area. Any insights into the regions prolification of good bands?

Caleb: I don’t know. That’s a good question. As detached as I am from a lot of it now, I think it’s something about those New England winters. Tough skin makes for good metal records. Especially with the earlier hardcore scene. It developed in New York, Boston and DC. The area built a lot of amazing bands that set the bar. You have bands like Unearth, Converge, and Shadows Fall that play in a band, tour and put out records all of the time and people catch on. You can’t get away from it. It’s great. They have a great work ethic and a love for what they do.

Plus the neighbor, Jamey Hatebreed. Has Cave In toured with them yet?

Caleb: Connecticut. No, I would love to tour with Hatebreed. That might be pretty challenging for us opening up for them. That band’s unreal. I’ve followed them since day one and I have their first demos and seven inches. Just seeing them evolve into what they are now is impressive.

How’s it working out with new drummer Ben?

Stephen: So far, it’s been really, really invigorating. Ben is a musician in his own right and has his own bag of tricks and his own way of speaking behind the drum kit. It’s exciting and a new toy for us to dabble with. We’ve already written a few new songs with him. It’s stuff that doesn’t sound like any other Cave In songs we’ve ever written, which is the key.

Caleb: We brought him on when J.R. was like ‘I don’t know when I’m coming home.’ We gave Ben a call and he’s been a friend of ours for a while and totally excited about helping us out and play with us for as long as need be. We did a couple of shows in Boston with him and it went really well. We recorded a couple of new songs which we’ll have on this next tour.

What happened to John-Robert Connors, your last drummer?

Stephen: Ultimately, J.R. hurt his wrist badly and had a lot of bad luck in accessing that situation and getting it taken care of. He also was living out of the country for a little while. That is where he is still with his wife. Even if he wanted to play drums in Cave in, he couldn’t. He doesn’t live in the same country and his wrist is messed up. He’s not able to work. That’s where it stands.

You’re about to do a U.S. tour with Doomriders?

Stephen: Yeah. It goes for about a month.Caleb: Nate from Converge’s band. Nate also plays in Old Man Gloom with me. That’s cool. It’s like a giant family of the same dudes but a few different bands. They’re all great friends of ours. We grew up playing music with them. More so Steve than myself.

Is anyone from Cave In involved in Doomriders?

Stephen: No. Might as well be. It’s such an incestuous scene over here. I guess that shows the rabid love that New Englanders share for playing music. It’s always something I felt about this area, ever since I became involved with playing music. That’s probably why I chose to stick around here as long as I have.

Other tours scheduled?

Stephen: This tour ends right before Christmas. We’ll hang with our families and open some presents. Then after New Years, we’re going to do a tour over in Europe for about a month. We’re doing that with Pelican. We’re really looking forward to that. Then we’re planning on being at South By Southwest next year. Shortly after that, we’re touring Japan for a week. That will lead us into April, and hopefully by then, we will have formulated another record.

Have you toured Japan before?

Stephen: Not Cave In. I went over there with a band I was playing in called the New Idea Society.

Cave In traditionally releases a number of split singles and songs for compilations and tribute albums. Do you have anything like that coming out in the near future?

Stephen: For this tour coming up, we have a two song cassingle. It’s Ben’s recorded debut on drums. It’s two brand new songs and it’s a limited thing. I don’t think we’re going to make more than 500. If we manage to sell 500 cassingles, we’ll be surprised, considering the cassette is a dying format at this point. It might already be dead. We found a way to dig up some plastic corpses to make 500 of these things to give away. It’s fun to do stuff like that. It will test the love of your fans. How far can you go to test your love for the people who love what you do? That’s part of what it is. Here’s a couple of new songs, good luck trying to play them! We’re really excited about it. They look awesome. Aaron Turner did the design work for it. We gave him the rule that he wasn’t allowed to use a computer in his design work. It’s all done by hand. It’s like a demo you’d buy a local hardcore show ten years ago.

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